--- title: Are You Looking for a Tree-Climber or a Fish? description: Why church size matters when you are making a hire. image: https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/hubfs/david-clode-643810-unsplash.jpg --- [Skip to content](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/are-you-looking-for-a-tree-climber-or-a-fish#main-content) [![cropped-chemistry_logo_homepage-342x95](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/hs-fs/hubfs/cropped-chemistry_logo_homepage-342x95.webp?width=342&height=95&name=cropped-chemistry_logo_homepage-342x95.webp "cropped-chemistry_logo_homepage-342x95")](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/) - [How We Help](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/what-we-do/) - [How We Help Candidates](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/candidate/) - [How We Help Churches](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/church/) - [Our Team](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/team/) - [Our Mission & Strategy](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/what-we-do/) - [Churches](https://chemistrystaffing.com/church) - [Hire New Staff](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/2021-churches-new-staff-hiring/) - [Free 30-Minute Church Consult](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/lets-talk/) - [Chemistry Solutions – You Don’t Have to Do Ministry Alone](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/solutions/) - [Final Fit Assessment](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/final-fit-assessment/) - [Senior Pastor Succession](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/succession/) - [Job Seekers](https://chemistrystaffing.com/candidate) - [Add My Resume / Profile](https://chemistry.fyi/kwq) - [Current Openings](https://chemistrystaffing.com/jobs) - [Free Resume Assessment](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/free-resume-self-assessment/) - [Step-by-Step Job Search](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/cjb) - [How Chemistry Can Help](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/candidate/) - [Resources](http://www.chemistrystaffing.com/candidate/) - [Free Playbooks & Downloads](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/resources/) - [Chemistry Blog](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/) - [2024 Youth Pastor Compensation Survey](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/resources/2024-yp-compensation-survey/) - [Contact Us](http://www.chemistrystaffing.com/lets-talk/) - [Candidates](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/candidate-contact-page/) - [Churches](http://www.chemistrystaffing.com/lets-talk/) - [Find a Job](https://chemistrystaffing.com/jobs) - [My Church is Hiring](https://www.chemistrystaffing.com/lets-talk/) [Leadership](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/tag/leadership) # Are You Looking for a Tree-Climber or a Fish? Why church size matters when you are making a hire. ![david-clode-643810-unsplash](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/hubfs/david-clode-643810-unsplash.jpg) # Why church size matters in hiring Karl Vaters is one of my favorite voices on the small church. He recently wrote a piece entitled *[Small Church Pastors Have A Different Skill Set, Not A Lesser One](https://www.christianitytoday.com/karl-vaters/2019/june/small-church-pastors-different-skill-set-not-lesser.html?paging=off)* on Christianity Today's site that has had me thinking about churches can sometimes get themselves in trouble during a search process. As you have probably gleaned from the title, Vaters suggests that pastors of small churches (fish) have a different set of skills than those of large church pastors (tree climbers). The key word is *different*, not better... not worse, *different.* I would agree with Karl that there is an inclination within the church world to focus on weekend attendance as the number one indicator of a pastor's success, which can cause us to give too much weight to the advice of big church pastors. Don't get me wrong, there is much that small churches can learn from large churches (and vice versa), but sometimes large churches just don't understand what leading in a small church looks like. Where we have seen churches, and pastors, get themselves into trouble is by making the assumption that size doesn't matter in the hiring process. This is simply not true. When we interview candidates for positions involving a significant step down in size, we attempt to see if there is an understanding of differences between the two cultures. Larger churches allow people to specialize in certain areas, whereas smaller churches tend to require more of a generalist's skill set. Larger churches often have administrative staff, facilities teams, and people who handle operational details that smaller churches do not have. This difference may not change the amount of work that needs to be done on a weekly basis, but it can have a significant impact on how the work gets done... and by who. On the other hand, one of the struggles that we see with people transitioning from a smaller church to a larger church is a struggle to release ministry to others. The years of working in a smaller church setting, with the generalist's skill set, causes them to attempt to do everything... instead of releasing other people to own parts of the ministry. Again, this does not change the amount of work that needs to be done, but it does impact how the work gets done... and by who. Please hear me when I say that working in a small church does not disqualify one from working in a large church or that working in a large church does not prevent someone from successfully serving in a small church context. That said, search teams and candidates need to be aware of these differences, and have the self-awareness to recognize how these differences will impact them in their next season of ministry.   ![matt](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/hubfs/matt.png)   [![Searching for a new staff member? We can help...](https://no-cache.hubspot.com/cta/default/5045578/2df5b87c-a8d5-48c7-8761-78d8b21dfd4c.png)](https://cta-redirect.hubspot.com/cta/redirect/5045578/2df5b87c-a8d5-48c7-8761-78d8b21dfd4c)  ### [![Matt Steen](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/hubfs/IMG_4588.jpg) Matt Steen](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/author/matt-steen) Matt has served the local church for over two decades as a youth pastor, church planter, and executive pastor. Originally from Baltimore, Matt currently lives in Orlando, with his wife Theresa, and has a B.S. in Youth Ministry from Nyack College and an M.Div. and MBA from Baylor University. Certified as an Urban Church Planter Coach by Redeemer City to City and as a StratOp facilitator by the Paterson Center, Matt has made a career of helping churches thrive through intentionality, clarity, and creating healthy cultures. He is convinced that a healthy church is led by a healthy team with great chemistry, and loves partnering with Chemistry’s churches to do great things for the Kingdom. [![Facebook Author](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/facebook.svg)](https://www.facebook.com/snoop4jc) [![Twitter Author](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/twitter.svg)](https://twitter.com/matt_steen) [![Linkedin Author](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/linkedin.svg)](https://www.linkedin.com/in/matthewsteen/) ## Latest Resources Browse Articles ![What's Actually Killing Your Church? The Surprising 250-Year Diagnosis](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/hubfs/blog-images/featured/featured_158.png) #### What's Actually Killing Your Church? The Surprising 250-Year Diagnosis Church decline isn't what you think. Discover what's really threatening the church today vs. 1776 and the 1900s—and why low numbers aren't ... ![What's Actually Killing Your Church? The Surprising 250-Year Diagnosis](https://app.hubspot.com/settings/avatar/883a0d42581424e9bbe7c77dccfeed6b) ###### Todd Rhoades July 07, 2026 ![Stop Apologizing for Small Groups: Why Your ](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/hubfs/blog-images/featured/featured_126.png) #### Stop Apologizing for Small Groups: Why Your "Failed" Bible Study is Actually a Discipleship Goldmine When attendance drops in your small group discipleship ministry, don't panic. Discover why smaller groups create deeper disciples and stron... ![Stop Apologizing for Small Groups: Why Your ](https://app.hubspot.com/settings/avatar/883a0d42581424e9bbe7c77dccfeed6b) ###### Todd Rhoades July 06, 2026 ![Stop Screening Out Your Best Candidates: Why Competency Matters More Than Seminary Degrees](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/hubfs/blog-images/featured/featured_142.png) #### Stop Screening Out Your Best Candidates: Why Competency Matters More Than Seminary Degrees Church hiring practices may be filtering out incredible candidates. Learn why competency should trump credentials in your ministry staff se... ![Stop Screening Out Your Best Candidates: Why Competency Matters More Than Seminary Degrees](https://app.hubspot.com/settings/avatar/883a0d42581424e9bbe7c77dccfeed6b) ###### Todd Rhoades July 06, 2026 [![Elements Logo](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/logos/logo.svg "Elements Logo")](http://chemistrystaffing.com) Lorem ipsum dolor sit amet, consecteturor adipiscing elit. Tincidunt donec vulputate ipsum erat urna auctor. Eget phasellus ideirs. ###### Menu [Home 1](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/home/1) [Home 2](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/home/2) [Home 3](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/home/3) [About 1](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/about/1) [About 2](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/about/2) [Contact 1](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/contact/1) [Contact 2](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/contact/2) [View More](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/) ###### Company [Team v1](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/team/1) [Team v2](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/team/2) [Team Member](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/team-member) [Pricing 1](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/pricing/1) [Pricing 2](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/pricing/2) [View More](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/) ###### Resources [Blog v1 cms](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/blog) [Blog v2 cms](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/blog) [Blog Post 1 cms](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/blog/elements-blog-2-0-0-1-1) [Blog Post 2 cms](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/blog/elements-blog-2-0-0-1-1) [Case Studies](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/case-studies) [Case Study](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/case-study) [View More](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/) ###### Landing Pages [Form v1](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/form-landing-page/1) [Form v2](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/form-landing-page/2) [Simple Form](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/simple-form-landing-page) [Full Screen Video](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/full-screen-video-landing-page) [eBook v1](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/ebook-landing-page/1) [eBook v2](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/ebook-landing-page/2) [Webinar](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/webinar-landing-page) [Conference](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/conference-landing-page) [Schedule a Demo](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/schedule-a-demo-landing-page) [View More](https://blog.chemistrystaffing.com/) [![Visit facebook](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/facebook.svg)](https://www.facebook.com/) [![Visit twitter](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/twitter.svg)](https://twitter.com) [![Visit instagram](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/instagram.svg)](https://www.instagram.com/) [![Visit linkedin](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/linkedin.svg)](http://www.linkedin.com/) [![Visit youtube](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/youtube.svg)](https://youtube.com) [![Visit telegram](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/telegram.svg)](https://telegram.org) [![Visit whatsapp](https://f.hubspotusercontent10.net/hubfs/8768169/Elements/Theme/icons/social/whatsapp.svg)](https://whatsapp.com) Copyright 2026 | Chemistry Staffing